Cockpit view

[Steeve Fournier]

As legends-league ever thought about forcing cockpit driving view?

[MarkF]

It always was, but we had a couple of members with medical conditions which meant they would be unable to race competitively, so it was relaxed, neither are racing now, but I fear you may have opened a can of worms now

[Grant Riddall]

As legends-league ever thought about forcing cockpit driving view?

No. Never since I've been here. If I recall correctly I believe it use to be. But that was before my time. ( brace yourself as I'm really against this )

Legends (since I've been admin) has never thought about forcing people to go against what is comfortable with how they drive. We only limit to what a player can use to assist them. No aids such as traction control or ABS because that would see an unfair advantage throughout the field.

My Dad drives with the nose camera in races were we use GT cars. It helps him to feel a greater sense of spacial awareness that he cannot get with using the cockpit view. He's always said using a different view should be seen as an extension of the setup.

Personally I really don't like it when leagues force a driver to a certain view. I don't understand it to be honest. I know it creates a sense of more realism but apart from that what would a league gain from it?

Look at it like this. I use 100% power in all of my setups, my dad uses 0%. If we were to lock it to 100% then how would that be fair for those who use 0%? It's the same with forcing the cockpit view rule


Just curious..... Why do you ask Steve?

P.s I have always driven in cockpit view no matter what mod.

[Steeve Fournier]

Just asking because i think its much more realistic in cockpit view and will make the league more prestigious. Also, maybe its possible to go faster in another view (i have never try though), but having a greater view of the map and field may help in other view.

Also that it would put everyone on the same page. I don't share your opinion that it is like blocking a setup.

But i would not recommand to force it if we are to lose some drivers.

Maybe its safer to use other view, like your dad, if he can see things that cockpit view doesn't than its safer I prefer being more carefull and have a realistic view though, i need to feel i'm in the car

Steeve

[Grant Riddall]

Just asking because i think its much more realistic in cockpit view and will make the league more prestigious.

Even more so than a league that boasts to cater for everyone?

but having a greater view of the map and field may help in other view.

Having a map? Does that no go against the point of forcing a cockpit view? Realism.

But i would not recommand to force it if we are to lose some drivers.

That's exactly what would happen.

I really like these discussions. It's good to see other drivers opinions and views. Helps to create the shape of this League

Steve, you ever driven in a league where they force cockpit view? If so, the members.... Do they join because of that realism? Knowing everyone's in the same view?

[Steeve Fournier]

Even more so than a league that boasts to cater for everyone?

My base language is french, i don't understand the meaning of this sentence... sorry.

Having a map? Does that no go against the point of forcing a cockpit view? Realism

By map, i now realise i pick the wrong word, i was more talking about the "track" view, not the mini map.

Steve, you ever driven in a league where they force cockpit view? If so, the members.... Do they join because of that realism? Knowing everyone's in the same view

Yes, i've drive in PrestoGP league (Race07), and will still do in rf2 as they are now here for their 14th season (FR3.5), They force cockpit view. I have never heard that people join because of that. But some people join because they use different weather. 1 guy (not a racer) is doing a "meteo file" and he gives the forecast 1 week from the race day. It can look like. "Uncertain weather expeted, medium chances of rain that can vary from mid-heavy intensity. If it happens, it can have a 15-45 minute durability." As for my part, i hate rain!!!! But i have to admitt it creates much more opportunity of mixed results.

Steeve

[Roberto]

When I first read this topic, I didn't think about other driving views until I realized that one of those views may give that driver the upper hand. Years ago I knew a guy that used to love racing games but played them on his Playstation 3. He would use the PS hand controller and have the over and behind view so he could see all around his car. I would let him race on my sims (Back then was F1/GTR mod on 2-LAN PCs) with a similar controller. When he raced, as cars approached him to pass, he would have time to move his car into position and keep other cars from passing. He was almost impossible to pass and won almost every race.

I guess this is the only view you can have if you are using a controller other than a wheel/pedals but would having full view around your car benefit a driver while racing? Like I said in the beginning of this reply, I never thought of this until mentioned by the OP.

[SteveC]

Good post Steeve. I am with Grant, although I use cockpit view I see no issue with others driving in nose cam whatsoever.

When I started simracing I used nose cam religiously for 1 year - and I really hated cockpit view with a passion. I simply could not do a decent lap in cockpit view (in GT cars), it was horrible in every way. During this time, a few other cockpit view guys did complain bitterly that nose cam should not be allowed as it was faster than cockpit view.

And I fully agreed with them! Cause in cockpit view mode I really sucked and was several seconds per lap slower, although I used nose cam view myself I fully accepted it was faster because that was literally my own experience of it.

Then a simracing break through moment occurred for me. I spent a lot of time getting the sim correctly configured, the wheel and most crucially the FOV. And I tried cockpit view again, and bizarrely the cockpit view just started clicking for me. It was awesome! The game experience, and feeling of grip and immersion was so much better. It was the best thing I ever did with RF2 and have never looked back.

But here is the killer fact, WITHIN DAYS literally 2-3 days I was doing EXACTLY the same lap times in cockpit view as I had been doing previously, and that was in GT cars too. I realised something at this point, and can tell you all with 100% certainty there is NO DIFFERENCE in lap time between nose and cockpit view WHATSOEVER. And I was the biggest cockpit view hater around before I made this discovery.

Some leagues run enforced cockpit view, I quite like that myself but it is no biggie, what bothers me and us generally here at Legends is the way the other guys drive. That is the important thing, and that is something that transcends cam view modes, so I do not see any point in restricting the cam views. That just means a bunch of potentially good racers cannot race with us. I know quite a lot of people have strong feeling about the cockpit/nose view thing, all I can say is I have equally strong feelings there is NO difference in speed at all between the two, and I use cockpit view always.

There is some truth to what Roberto says. But this does not hinge on the cam view mode alone. To the best of my knowledge this involves using a combination of 3 factors, a hand controller/keyboard instead of a wheel, crazily unrealistic FOV settings and also a view cam that is set way high up on top of the car (Swingman). As far as I am concerned, these people are only cheating themselves of a good time. Also, a carefully trained eye can bust people doing this by observing the car in the server replays. Here at Legends we go back many years, on RF1 cheating was absolutely prolific and Bret and Rouke and other guys still around here from the RF1 years were VERY active in combatting the RF1 cheating indeed, and I think anyone deploying such technique here would be busted pretty quick and get a lifetime ban.

Not many 'gamers' play RF2 though Roberto, although we are smart to such things this is not a serious issue. As mentioned, there is more than 1 way to combat it anyway, but it could be said that disabling the 'Swingman' cam view only is an argument that does have some merit - I doubt anybody is using that anyway. But I do not even see the need to do this myself.

[Mart2]

I always drive cockpit view, I like realism and for me it makes it more realistic, but if guys want to drive from other views that's ok by me, as long as they get some ballast

[Rouke]

I seriously doubt it makes someone faster. it might make them safer (cam-behind-car can see allot more or earlier) but then it also makes them safer for me which is nice.
And moving into someone's line, whether or not they can see you from another cam earlier , is not allowed in this league anyways.

[Jef Vannijlen]

I thought all sim racers drive cockpit view.

I cant feel a thing in swingman, it swings, so u cant see where the car is pointing excactly.
Its a great view for arcade racing games.
I dont have anything against nosecam but i think its more dangerous when there is a car in front.
Higher view is safer so nothing against that either, but i think its artificial and also arcady.
Its cool when u watch your replay like that.
I also like to add that having higher viewpoint, makes u anticipate crests or blind corners better, or find your line faster.
But i dont really see it as cheating, just a pitty people actually drive this view.
I would like everybody driving cockpit, to be honest, i think they miss out on the greatest and most immersive driving view.
Once u get rid of the excess vibrations and just keep the head movement, it is great.
I suggest everybody at least tries. U dont drive a car standing up, u sit almost on the ground.