Silverstone GP (spoilers)

[Grant Riddall]

Also it's important to point out I've grown up with F1 from early 90's so I didn't experience F1 back in the day of danger

So to some there views will be different and that's totally acceptable

Ray. Did you say you actually talked to James Hunt?!?!

[Rouke]

Bogdan/Grant, I was only pointing out Alonso's comments and found it funny after that pass. don't care what you guys say, that took some balls with those speeds and being that close to eachother. and why did it take him 10 laps if he was on such better tires?
But yeah, Alonso does stand out in the crowd indeed, always been a fan of his driving and especially the way he thinks on-track, he's so smart and efficient!

As for liking not liking Vettel, meh, i'm not a fan but who cares anyways. never felt the need to pick a side or stand by some guy. I just love the sport in general and anyone entertaining me with their epic skills gets my applause

Btw Grant , they do have a better car mate, don't be in denial lol.


edit: anyone knows if Kimi is alright? big fan of him hehe, but mainly because of his attitude

[Grant Riddall]

Bogdan/Grant, I was only pointing out Alonso's comments

I wasn't saying anything about them two apart from them both whining too much. You mistakenly mixed me into in

Btw Grant , they do have a better car mate, don't be in denial :

Re read what I said you silly boy

and yes I will be enjoying every bit of Mercedes dominance this season knowing both drivers aren't leading due to the car as much. Because there both repetitive proven winners in slower cars :

Key words are "as much" Rouke, yes there dominating the pack, but unlike Vettel they've actually proven to be winners, and winners down to there skill and not the car....


God it's hard work with you Roukesanman

P.s I'll always support Hamilton. Followed him since start of formula 2 and to see him on the verge of conquering F1 is really good for me to see.

[Bogdan]

why did it take him 10 laps if he was on such better tires?

Well, because Alonso is the master . To be fair, Alonso was on those tires for more than 10 laps before Vettel came out of the pits in front of him. Regardless, it was awesome to watch.

I do agree though Rouke, the driver vs. driver arguments are quite silly. In any case, it was probably some of the best wheel to wheel racing in quite some time. Big props to both of them.

[DaleB]

This thread is a great read, my feelings are Alonso is the only thing that is keeping Ferrari with any constructors points. He gets the most out of his car, far and away an incredible driver, we all now good Kimi can be, at the beginning of the season I was expecting the battle that Rosberg and Hamilton are having, it shows how good Alonso is. The thing with Vettel is he seems like he is such an unlikable guy and it clouds our judgement of his driving ability. I am also no fan of Vettel but my opinion is slowly changing, I think the comments he made last year at the end of the US F1 race were very telling, he realized what was going on with his situation with Red Bull and could be a once in a lifetime situation realizing he was a very lucky guy. He has proved to me he is an excellent driver, he's a very good driver, can't put down his driving ability. I too hated the whining the two of them were doing during that great battle, only thing it took away from it, very fun to watch.

I think Ricciardo is very, very good and Red Bull got lucky grabbing him which will put more pressure on Vettel, I think Ricciardo is adapting to the new car much better then Vettel is. The other thing I think is interesting in regards to Hamilton and Rosberg is Lauda had mentioned earlier in the season that he felt like there was a .2 second difference in lap times between the two of them, Hamilton being the faster of the two.

This really is a great season, never thought I'd say that when you have such a dominant team in F1 but so many side stories, I still stand by my prediction, I'm seriously wondering whether Kimi will be back at Ferrari next season.

[SteveC]

What would be really cool is to kick Riccardo out (rather unfairly I guess) purely in order to get MONTOYA IN!! A good heavy dose of the Montoya treatment will really put Vettel into the mother of all sulks . Probably he would be on anti-depressants in no time at all.

I also think Alonso is the man, I am not a fan of his as such but he is the best there alright, he could have won 4 or 5 WC by now if he wasn't always in the 2nd or 3rd fastest car, I think his 2 compare more favourable than Vettels 4 and I am not detracting anything from Vettel there. Nothing has ever worked out too great for Alonso for so many years equipment wise.

But I think there is only a silver rizla (extremely thin rolling papers) between all them boys in the A crowd, all them guys are totally up there, this is a golden era of drivers like back in the late 80's early 90's when I started watching it, and also Riccardo's sensational form just goes to show how difficult it is to compare truly the drivers even with two seasons, u take a guy that's won everything non stop out the car then he seems a bit lost after some rule changes, who knows what other drivers can do not simply by switching to a faster team, but just to a car that suits their style better. F1 is an incredibly fickle business.

[Bogdan]

What would be really cool is to kick Riccardo out (rather unfairly I guess) purely in order to get MONTOYA IN!! A good heavy dose of the Montoya treatment will really put Vettel into the mother of all sulks . Probably he would be on anti-depressants in no time at all.

That would indeed be awesome. I was a big Montoya fan when he came into F1 and could care less who Schumacher was.

I first met Alonso when he was at Minardi. I knew the kid was special. Then I shook his hand once more at Goodwood in 2005 right before he won his first WDC. A very nice guy and a true inspiration to some of us in awe of his talents. It's been frustrating seeing him try so hard to get that 3rd WDC. Hopefully it will come some day.

[Ray Walton]

I suspect we'll see a TechPro or similar barrier at that section next year as they can be quickly replaced if necessary. But it should be blindingly obvious that there does need to be a barrier there otherwise a car would hit the side of the bridge support or fly up the banking where spectators stand. Concrete would be less likely to be damaged but if it had been so, Kimi's impact would have been much higher - the armco did it's job of absorbing some of the energy.

FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised that if they knew it would have taken an hour to replace, they wouldn't have red flagged the race. Instead we would have had several laps behind the safety car followed by waved double yellows in that section for the rest of the race and no DRS. I think we got a better race than that one would have been.

Well no way of knowing whether it would have been a better or worse race but NO WAY would there need to be waved yellows there for the rest of the race once the debris was cleared and the safety car pulled in, as of course the drivers would have known about the armco there anyway and I would imagine it would simply not bother them at all as so insignificant.

You know a more intelligent answer would have been maybe to simply put some old tyres there tied together and placed in front of that damaged armco (and around the bridge concrete support as that should have been there in the first place). Then a few safety car laps would have been all that was needed. Once it was quickly clear that Kimi was okay then no need for a red flag at all IMHO. As I said i listen to Niki if I want to hear sound common motor racing sense, and still stunned that the normally sensible Eddie Jordon did not agree with him. Simply well OOT over regulation and excessive race detracting H&S

Rik of course I accept that armco is a good thing but if the area is dangerous there (which it normally isn't) then why do they not surround the bridge concrete support with armco and/or tyres too ??

Grant yes I did mate for about 10 minutes watching the 74 GP race from the infield at Brands, and no I am not a bullshitter. Not name dropping either just a moment in my life that I shall never forget as James Hunt was my hero at the time. Big thing for me is I did not go and pester him as not my style, but he and his girlfriend came and sat right next to me where I was sitting on my own spectating in a non public infield area near the pits and he was the one who started the chat too. I was a pit marshal at that '74 GP and when the race was on some of us were allowed to go and watch the race form our choice of infield area. Magic moments from the past

Two years later I was invited by the RAC as a track marshal and was honoured to be allocated to Post 1 right next to the start line Another big high in my life that was too, especially because it was one of the most classic British GP races ever with the Hunt/Lauda battle just before Lauda's big accident at The Ring a few weeks later.

Grant as I said before i lived near where you are a few miles away in Tunbridge Wells where I was born in the rough end known as High Brooms. My favourite Tonbridge pub in those days was The Harvesters on Shipbourne Road where it had live rock music there frequently. But I believe that the sick UK has seen to it that many of these old pubs that were part of the true British way of life have now closed down

[Rik Walker]

You know a more intelligent answer would have been maybe to simply put some old tyres there tied together and placed in front of that damaged armco

Tyre barriers are pretty much useless for single seater cars unless they are securely wrapped in a conveyor belt. Simply tying the tyres together would still allow a F1 car to go between them such as in Schumacher's leg-braking crash at Silverstone or the car could get snagged up in them in the case of a less frontal impact, greatly increasing the rate of deceleration. I don't know how long it would take to create such a barrier from scratch as I've no idea of the sort of machinery required to achieve sufficient tension in the conveyor belt but I can't imagine it would be much less time than replacing the barrier. Sections of belted tyres could be kept on hand for such purposes, but TechPro would be easier and more effective. I would hope Silverstone & other tracks to learn from this & have such an option for future races - plus training their repairmen to Monaco standards!

Rik of course I accept that armco is a good thing but if the area is dangerous there (which it normally isn't) then why do they not surround the bridge concrete support with armco and/or tyres too ??

Concrete is OK as long as it is parallel to the track or at a narrow angle and also close to the racing surface so the cars cannot generate sufficient perpendicular speed before impact.

http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ftpw016.html is a good explanation of barrier technology.

[Rouke]

I'm seriously wondering whether Kimi will be back at Ferrari next season.

Rouke wrote:
>>Such raw talent and such laziness as a sportsman, I don't think he trains at all lol.<<

Ray wrote:
But he lives well Rouke and I admire him for both his skill and his enjoyment of life. Always been a big fan of Kimi and his predecessor Hakkinen. Sure if he made his life more miserable and disciplined he would get better results form his doubtless amazing raw talent, but that would not make him a happier person and he has enough money for a wonderful luxury life now anyway. I think he may well retire again soon for all those reasons to lead to a happy contented life. Goodness me if he loves competing in motor racing that much he can always join Legends and race with you lot here hmm

Rik did not know that about the impact effect of concrete, makes sense what you say but not so obvious to be able to draw such a conclusion. Also interesting about the tyres needing preparing like that and not just tying together. Surely though that is an inexpensive option to have pre-made supplies on hand for rapid deployment. Clear and obvious common sense to me to avoid that OOT hour long delay debacle we had last Sunday, a decision which I still 100% disagree with.

[Grant Riddall]

Hehe I think you edited Rouke's post instead of quoted Ray

[Rouke]

Bloody hell Ray, I had to edit my edited post

Lol I get that too some times, luckily I always double check in which mode I am in

[Ray Walton]

I didn't edit anything of your post Rouke. I just copied and pasted that quote as I remember. Or was it someone else who said that. Remember I am a bloody old git now

[Bogdan]

This thread is a great read, my feelings are Alonso is the only thing that is keeping Ferrari with any constructors points. He gets the most out of his car, far and away an incredible driver, we all now good Kimi can be, at the beginning of the season I was expecting the battle that Rosberg and Hamilton are having, it shows how good Alonso is. The thing with Vettel is he seems like he is such an unlikable guy and it clouds our judgement of his driving ability. I am also no fan of Vettel but my opinion is slowly changing, I think the comments he made last year at the end of the US F1 race were very telling, he realized what was going on with his situation with Red Bull and could be a once in a lifetime situation realizing he was a very lucky guy. He has proved to me he is an excellent driver, he's a very good driver, can't put down his driving ability. I too hated the whining the two of them were doing during that great battle, only thing it took away from it, very fun to watch.

I think Ricciardo is very, very good and Red Bull got lucky grabbing him which will put more pressure on Vettel, I think Ricciardo is adapting to the new car much better then Vettel is. The other thing I think is interesting in regards to Hamilton and Rosberg is Lauda had mentioned earlier in the season that he felt like there was a .2 second difference in lap times between the two of them, Hamilton being the faster of the two.

This really is a great season, never thought I'd say that when you have such a dominant team in F1 but so many side stories, I still stand by my prediction, I'm seriously wondering whether Kimi will be back at Ferrari next season.

Here's an interesting read: https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/07 ... f1-driver/

Just like with all models, they are all wrong, it's just that some are useful . There are quite strong anomalies coming out (e.g. Senna, Prost, etc), but one still has to respect the amount of work that was put into setting up the inputs for the model. We can argue about the "garbage in, garbage out" aspect of the work, but at least within this given framework, the output is not necessarily influenced by subjective interpretation. Anyway, I thought it was worth the read.

[Leo]

Very interesting, thx for the link. Happy to see my hero Clark come out on top. The model can't be that far off then!