Zandvoort Race Reports

rFactor based League - Trans World Formula Classics [F167]
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Rouke
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Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Rouke »

I guess every downside has its upside, with only 8 drivers and hefty weights for the fast guys I managed to get my first victory this season :upsidedown:

Started practising Saturday, pace was reasonable, ported over Grant's gears tonight and was instantly faster with a pb in Qualifying for the 3rd spot.

We had some confusion on where to get at the start, as Grant's starts are typically slow I wanted the left side, pass him and jef and see what would happen with Grant defending the inside.
Until the last second we changed our minds, for the better, his start was pretty good, equally or faster. positions remained after green though.

I passed Grant before lap2 on the straight and at T1 lap2 Vadim gave me a big scare not braking at all, so it seemed, he went passed me full speed and sadly took Jef out
After that it was a case of maintaining gaps, checking in which sections I would be faster vs Ralph, then Angelo, and trying to capitalize on those advantages.

I understand Angelo is upset with Grant, better let them have a go at it themselves, I hope it will remain civil, there's always the protest option Angelo to settle a dispute. Needless to say there where no team orders, rest assured about that. in fact on lap1 I almost rammed grant as I was staying behind him but he slowed to let me pass...a bit of confusion we need to work on Grant :)

Anyhow, it felt really good, such a good flow on this track and tires degrading made it even better, made little or no mistakes and could have easily done another 32 laps hehe.
Last edited by Rouke on Sun May 12, 2013 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jef Vannijlen
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Jef Vannijlen »

If Vadim only would have chosen Grant to crash into.... :?
Had to close the gap with a bent car but could not find the space to overtake.
One moment i thought the car had set himself straight but then when it got lighter and lighter it started to pull weird stuff on me.
Looks like i missed the fight for the win, but i had fun battling while it lasted.
#79 -Jef Vannijlen - Jeeve79
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Grant Riddall
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Grant Riddall »

Eventful night.

Like Hoek stated, Good start. But my nerves run away and decided to let Rouke past on lap 2 rather than hold him up. Had a good battle until i was then nudged off the road by Angelo on turn 3 and lost 3 places. Annoyed by the fact no places were given back and i lose out after being used as a brake and a barrier. Really didnt understand that.

Worked my way back up into 2nd with about 12 laps to go and finished 2nd behind a well deserved and driven Rouke! Well done mate. Kikko 1-2, Been a while!
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Now Angelo i know your not happy with me dropping in speed but hear me out. You were charging thorugh with good speed and threatening me and Rouke for 2nd a 1st. So i decided to slow down by around 6-8 tenths a lap. Nothing " dramatic" thier. To protect me and Rouke this was how i dealt with it. As far as im aware thier are no rules against this. I can and could of easily said my tyres went and couldnt find grip. But im here admitting i went a little bit slower. I see nothing wrong with it.

The annoyance i have however is to be honest, You were way too harsh tonight. I was repeatedly nudged by you, and i wasnt the only one. I even had damage. Now im not sure if its the weight frustrating you or the pressure or what, but that wasnt expected from a driver of your skill.

If you have problems with the way i drove tonight please reply here or pm me. I'd rather know and sort it out than think thiers a "grudge" because of this.
Last edited by Grant Riddall on Sun May 12, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Angelo dos Santos
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Angelo dos Santos »

I nudged and was nudged tonight...this is part of close racing, it can happen.
The only I felt I was a bit too harsh was to Ray, and Ive already apologised to him via Pm.

Now about the tactics:

One thing is one team leading 1-2, the third guy came close, and the Second placed start to defend the team by defending his position in a fair way. Fair game.

Other thing completely different is the team leading...and the 3th guy is coming...the 2nd is the faster by a long way and simply isnt attacking because he dont want it to. So he decides to drop his pace to hurt the 3th guy, slow his race and slow the race of the other guy, in order to defend the team. I nudged Grant on this phase a bit because he was slowing me down on purpose, and at times I had to brake really hard to not slam into him. I nudged him and imediattely backed off because I didnt want to overtake dirt. Then I overtook him, he got me back, and start to go faster than everybody else. Made me lose 5 seconds, hurted my race....and suceeded in defend the team. "Toying" with me in the process. Congratulations.

Nothing against this in the rules, for sure. How it can be? :thumbsup:

I will be over this in one day or two. Racing normally in the last round as I aways do.

Protest? No, no thanks. Everyone race with his conscience, and I will let stay this way.

Congratulations Rouke, good win, good consistency. :)
Last edited by Angelo dos Santos on Mon May 13, 2013 4:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Angelo dos Santos
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Angelo dos Santos »

The incident that Grant touched, where he lost 3 places. Happened early in the race.

I was very close behind him, and he hitted the kerb outside, braking early because of that...I tried the inside to avoid contact but already compromised with my braking point, and touched on him. He lost position, and I lost position to Ray as well because of that.
Honestly didnt think I was at fault at the time, because I felt he braked too early.

But Im sorry. My fault.
Last edited by Angelo dos Santos on Sun May 12, 2013 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grant Riddall
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Grant Riddall »

That curb i touched was my racing line, i did brake a little early but you were far enough behind not to off made the move. I still was nudged off the track in an unfair mannor. I still lost out more. I still had no place given back. But i dont really care it was a fun race and i was happy to still be racing with you and the others. I know the bumps and nudges werent intentional, It wasnt malicious it was just a bit off aggressive driving.

But later on in the race i was not toying with you. This is beginning to annoy me as this is not the first time ive been accussed of this. If i decide to go fractionally slower then thats my choice. Did i do it to toy with you Angelo? No. Not at all! Like i stated above, protection was why i did it. Each corner i brake half a second earlier and accelerate half a second later. If you did this to me i would think "well played". Im sorry if it isnt what you expected, in future i will race you 100% and no tactics if thats what you want.

A similiar incident happened in 79's
79 Instanbul race i did the exact same thing to Rik Walker. I was thrashing my tyres way to much and had to find a solution. So with him right on my tail i started easing off in the corners to ease the pressure on them. My lap times dropped by about 8 tenths a lap. Rik was finidng it hard to pass. I did not however "toy" with him. We actually had a very good race.

The word "toying" is beginning to feel like an easy accusation towards me when i use this legal tactic.

Id rather just leave it here Angelo, Obviously you have views that we should race 100% all the time where as i dont. If i use "tactics" then i will. Just from now on not on you.
Congratulations on 3rd, you obviously deserved 2nd.
Last edited by Grant Riddall on Mon May 13, 2013 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vadim
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Vadim »

Sorry Jef and Bret. That was so pathetic on my side.

I was trying to collect nobody there....I was sure I will make it thru the gap....
No practice apart from some 6 previous laps...and some real heavy stuff in private.

And no...focus does not come back miraculously.
Such a shame I fucked this up...specially since we race in micro fields... :tongue: bääh.

Championships gone I guess...not that I really counted on it.
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Grant Riddall
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Grant Riddall »

Vadim wrote:Championships gone I guess...not that I really counted on it.
Anything can happen Vadim. 1 more race and everything is up for grabs. Just do the best you can do at Road Atlanta!
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Angelo dos Santos
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Angelo dos Santos »

You did at Istambul to protect your tires, Grant. Thats a good reason.
You did yesterday with the ONLY intention of slow me down in order to protect Rouke, as you have the speed to be ahead of us more than 10 seconds. Thats legal? for sure. Thats ectical? hmmm....

You were fighting with me...knowing that you was going to win. I overtook you, you took me back, an dissapeared in my front after play this game.

No, I didnt deserve second yesterday. But at least I could have the chance to try...

Anyway, Im glad you will go 100% racing against me. This is the way I race against you since your day 1 here at Legends.

Thanks.
Last edited by Angelo dos Santos on Mon May 13, 2013 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grant Riddall
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Grant Riddall »

Yeah i agree with you. Its not really sporting like. But if a tactic is neccessary and legal i wont think twice bout doing it.

Anyway like i said ill stop tactics against you in future and race 100%
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Rouke
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Rouke »

I would like to give my angle on the matter between Angelo and Grant as this is a bit of an awkward situation for me beeing his teammate and also RD & MD. some clarification on that might be helpful.

I've talked to Grant about this and stated that I basically agreed with Angelo on the matter.
Even during the race I suspected this was going on to some extend and I was not too happy with that idea.

As admin I have to put out that even though no rules where breached (I haven't checked the replay tbh but i'm pretty positive no actual blocking was going on) this is in essence still against what Legends stands for: fair racing.
We even mention this in rule 18 ''An objective of Legends League is to race in a friendly and gentlemanly manner'' which has always been the case, the way we want to drive vs each other is just as important as technical rules.

Talking to Grant I understood he got his priorities mixed up between having fun, collecting points, and helping out his teammate. which is understandable imo, especially since I have given him my position on several occasions in the past to help him out and at Zandvoort he saw an opportunity to give something back. but still the wrong judgement call. as a driver I would have rather raced Angelo, even if it meant losing my position on him.

Since Angelo didn't want to file a complaint and Grant has already apologized here and in private to him there's not much to follow up on. Apart from my (our) wish that we keep the racing fair and keep ruling out oddities that effect our racing in negative ways.

Kudo's for dealing with this in such a way guys, this could have easily ended in a flame war but it didn't and lessons where learned. Not just for Grant, its always good to keep underlining issues like this so everyone will have a general idea on what to do and expect when racing at Legends
:cheers:
Last edited by Rouke on Tue May 14, 2013 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Bret Metcalf
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Bret Metcalf »

Vadim wrote:Sorry Jef and Bret. That was so pathetic on my side.
No apology needed from you to me Vadim-I went off on my own mate :)

Crashed at the beginning of lap 2 at T1-what a dope :lol:

This season,for personal reasons, has been a disaster for me, not being in a position or state of mind to race properly or help my fellow admins run things etc. But soon, most of my troubles will be over and done with (like kind of wiping a turd off my shoe that was just stuck there) :lol: and I will be back in full force.


Regards,
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Angelo dos Santos
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Re: Zandvoort Race Reports

Post by Angelo dos Santos »

@Grant and Rouke.

No hard feelings. Matter discussed and settled, on my side. :thumbsup:

Looking forward a great championship end at Road Atlanta...although I feel I will be too "fat" to be a contender there... :)
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