Week 48 - Accident after an accident
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Week 48 - Accident after an accident
Hello all, this is the first topic. It is a rather easy one. In front a crash happened and people behind slowed down. But one driver didn't notice it in time.
Car 1: The blue Tyrrell
Car 2: The John Player Lotus
Here are the pictures
An accident occurs, at this moment enough time to take care.
Car 2 brakes late and closes the gap.
Car 2 crashes into car 1
Moment that car 2 might notice something was going wrong in front.
At this moment car two could see the accident and should take maximum care. Pictures don't really show but car 2 could see the accident earlier.
So here are the questions:
What happened?
What went wrong?
How do you feel this could have been avoided?
Car 1: The blue Tyrrell
Car 2: The John Player Lotus
Here are the pictures
An accident occurs, at this moment enough time to take care.
Car 2 brakes late and closes the gap.
Car 2 crashes into car 1
Moment that car 2 might notice something was going wrong in front.
At this moment car two could see the accident and should take maximum care. Pictures don't really show but car 2 could see the accident earlier.
So here are the questions:
What happened?
What went wrong?
How do you feel this could have been avoided?
Last edited by Warren on Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:09 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Warren Pieterse
If you wanna win and I am behind you.. you better forget all your other problems. Cause the only problem your facing.... IS ME!!
If you wanna win and I am behind you.. you better forget all your other problems. Cause the only problem your facing.... IS ME!!
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The first thing that went wrong was the first incident infront which I find a bit stupid. But thats not the case now though.
Car 2 slams into car 1 and both cars get suspension problems I think, its a big crash anyway. What went wrong isnt the big question, its WHY? What went wrong is that the JP Lotus brakes way to late and havent got the eyes long enough on the track, he problary just looking at the car infront and when he gets to the breaking point he looks on the car that has spun and misses that the Tyrrell have full brakes on. Thats my theory anyway.
I dont wanna sound like an expert or something, because I'm not! But this could be avoided with a bit more carefullness.
Car 2 slams into car 1 and both cars get suspension problems I think, its a big crash anyway. What went wrong isnt the big question, its WHY? What went wrong is that the JP Lotus brakes way to late and havent got the eyes long enough on the track, he problary just looking at the car infront and when he gets to the breaking point he looks on the car that has spun and misses that the Tyrrell have full brakes on. Thats my theory anyway.
I dont wanna sound like an expert or something, because I'm not! But this could be avoided with a bit more carefullness.
- Antonio Wojahn
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Hi,
I guess what happened is that the JPS Lotus didn't watch the Tyrrell but the smoke in front. The Lotus braked too late and turned in too early, so that the car slid wide and made contact with the Tyrrell. Most drivers notoriously overshoot the apex as the corner is tighter than it looks from the speed you take through it. Perhaps being a bit more conservative on the brake would solve the problem. Plus, maybe this could have been avoided by not making a change of line, or by the Tyrrell taking a wide line (depends on how things looked ahead).
Ciao,
Antonio
I guess what happened is that the JPS Lotus didn't watch the Tyrrell but the smoke in front. The Lotus braked too late and turned in too early, so that the car slid wide and made contact with the Tyrrell. Most drivers notoriously overshoot the apex as the corner is tighter than it looks from the speed you take through it. Perhaps being a bit more conservative on the brake would solve the problem. Plus, maybe this could have been avoided by not making a change of line, or by the Tyrrell taking a wide line (depends on how things looked ahead).
Ciao,
Antonio
Aufgeben ist das Letzte, was man sich erlauben darf. <> Giving up is the last thing you may allow yourself.
there is sure smoke visible for car 2, but I bet there was a large YELLOW quadrat shown at his top left monitor too, latest then one has to back off and watch carefully what is going on, if a yellow is shown there IS something going on at or on the track even if it is not necessarily visible for you
avoidable contact for me, no doubt
I wish rFactor would handle the Yellows
a) as a moving flag since this brings more attention to the driver
b) the yellow were to be seen in the replays too
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I don't know if the Lotus driver was distracted by the smoke but to me it looks like he simply braked too late & too little to have much chance of making the turn even if the Tyrrell was not there!
I've made a little video from the Lotus driver's POV which I think illustrates it quite well.
I've made a little video from the Lotus driver's POV which I think illustrates it quite well.
- MarkF
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Thanks Rik, that video makes all the difference, IMO the driver should have lifted as soon as the smoke was seen and on the brakes hard as soon as the cars in front were slowing. You may lose a place by being cautious, but anyone overtaking in this situation is doing it under a caution flag whether it is shown or not. but, far better to lose a place and argue later through the complaint system than being out of the race IMHO.
We as drivers need to get in the mindset that if we see an incident ahead there is a yellow whether its shown or not. I am as guilty as the next, I had it happen to me whilst racing Don, I didn't see a yellow and I made a clean pass prior to an unseen accident, but Don did back out letting me through. once I saw Fulvio nicely balanced upside down i decided there must have been a yellow and gave the place back when it was reasonable to do so and not compromise my position to the guy behind Don. Which brings me to another point, if someone does concede a place in those circs and you are two cars back, be a sportsman and don't take advantage if it was not intended for you.
We as drivers need to get in the mindset that if we see an incident ahead there is a yellow whether its shown or not. I am as guilty as the next, I had it happen to me whilst racing Don, I didn't see a yellow and I made a clean pass prior to an unseen accident, but Don did back out letting me through. once I saw Fulvio nicely balanced upside down i decided there must have been a yellow and gave the place back when it was reasonable to do so and not compromise my position to the guy behind Don. Which brings me to another point, if someone does concede a place in those circs and you are two cars back, be a sportsman and don't take advantage if it was not intended for you.
Regards
Mark
Mark
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Maybe it's just one of those things we pick up being sim drivers having to make the best use of whats on the screen, not just infront of us.I dont think you have the time to look on the top of the screen while you are heading to a breaking point with lots of traffic.
As for the example, I agree with Rik, looks like the Lotus driver got caught out under acceleration & would've crashed anyway under normal conditions. If they'd reacted to the yellow sooner there'd possibly been no further incident or at least a less severe impact.
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- Rick Stratton
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"Where there's SMOKE, there's fire!"
Def. The very presence of a rumor means that something is afoot, even if not exactly what is rumored. - The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. Copyright © 2002 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
I preach this incessantly in the Stewards office. If a driver see's smoke, near or far, it should immediately set off alarm bells in thier head that extra care must be taken. With few exceptions, the first step in taking that caution is to slow down. Period. Speed kills, and in this case it ended up kiling several drivers.
I tried to come up with some reasons WHY someone would not slow down in this position. Please feel free to add more, I would really like to hear alternative views:
A) Confusion - the classic "deer in the headlights" syndrome. Again, caution is the better part of valor and slowing if your not sure of what's going on ahead is likely the best scenario.
B) Advantage - "looks like carnage up ahead, if I can just sneek through..." Well, beside being "unsportsmanlike" and in most cases illegal [passing under Yellow Flag conditions] it is also most likely that you'll create more carnage than avoid.
C) Reverse Advantage - "If I slow down, I might get passed, so better to keep my foot in it..." That logic is not necessarily wrong on it's face, you might get passed by another driver. BUT... if the event was far enough ahead to warn you, it will also have been far enough ahead to warn the driver behind. If you do get passed in this situation, it will be the passing driver who will suffer; penalty at best, joining the carnage at worst.
Lastly, if I hear the excuse of "I didn't see the smoke, because I have it turned OFF...", please send me a private message so I know! I will gladly let you by when the appropriate time comes!
Def. The very presence of a rumor means that something is afoot, even if not exactly what is rumored. - The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. Copyright © 2002 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
I preach this incessantly in the Stewards office. If a driver see's smoke, near or far, it should immediately set off alarm bells in thier head that extra care must be taken. With few exceptions, the first step in taking that caution is to slow down. Period. Speed kills, and in this case it ended up kiling several drivers.
I tried to come up with some reasons WHY someone would not slow down in this position. Please feel free to add more, I would really like to hear alternative views:
A) Confusion - the classic "deer in the headlights" syndrome. Again, caution is the better part of valor and slowing if your not sure of what's going on ahead is likely the best scenario.
B) Advantage - "looks like carnage up ahead, if I can just sneek through..." Well, beside being "unsportsmanlike" and in most cases illegal [passing under Yellow Flag conditions] it is also most likely that you'll create more carnage than avoid.
C) Reverse Advantage - "If I slow down, I might get passed, so better to keep my foot in it..." That logic is not necessarily wrong on it's face, you might get passed by another driver. BUT... if the event was far enough ahead to warn you, it will also have been far enough ahead to warn the driver behind. If you do get passed in this situation, it will be the passing driver who will suffer; penalty at best, joining the carnage at worst.
Lastly, if I hear the excuse of "I didn't see the smoke, because I have it turned OFF...", please send me a private message so I know! I will gladly let you by when the appropriate time comes!
Rick Stratton
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That vid makes it very clear Rik, not enough care imho, just a lift at first then brake keeping under control.
I agree with your statements Rick except "speed kills" it doesn't. I am sorry to rant but it is a mantra we are constantly hearing in the UK from the Safety Camera Parntnerships which is absolute b0ll0cks. I have told them water drowns but they don't want to ban that
I agree with your statements Rick except "speed kills" it doesn't. I am sorry to rant but it is a mantra we are constantly hearing in the UK from the Safety Camera Parntnerships which is absolute b0ll0cks. I have told them water drowns but they don't want to ban that
Baz
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Tony Cederholm wrote:well petra, I dont think you have the time to look on the top of the screen while you are heading to a breaking point with lots of traffic.
?
a human eye has about a 180° radius/range for eye sight (had to look at Wiki to say exactly I am no doctor) so even if you don`t focus on the top left side you WILL see the Yellow quadrat if it gets displayed by the game
- MarkF
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...or maybe you won't if you are so focussed on the car ahead, either way, if you see trouble ahead you should assume a yellow.Petra wrote:Tony Cederholm wrote:well petra, I dont think you have the time to look on the top of the screen while you are heading to a breaking point with lots of traffic.
?
a human eye has about a 180° radius/range for eye sight (had to look at Wiki to say exactly I am no doctor) so even if you don`t focus on the top left side you WILL see the Yellow quadrat if it gets displayed by the game
Regards
Mark
Mark