Re: LeoFFB Test

[antonio_wojahn]

Hi Ray,

thanks for the details, that helps. I'm a little surprised that you
use more steering lock in the F3s, but nevermind. Now I'm ready to
test LeoFFB tonight, hehe. It's a little effort, but managable...
hehe, especially if you pester other people with questions beforehand,
like I do. By the way, there won't be another version of LeoFFB,
the guy has stopped working on it for good. I think he wanted to hand
over his code to the Realfeel guy at some point, but I'm not sure if
that happens.

One thing that annoys me slightly is that it turns out that none of
the sims out these days has a 100% realistic way to model physics (and
FFB), all have lowspeed physics which are not entirely real. That's
not to say we haven't got precisely modelled physics etc, it's
probably not noticable for most people...

Ah, and another aside, check out the LeoFFB thread, they discuss an
error in rFactor which turned out when they used LeoFFB (driving
backwards). Finally, they concluded that there seems to be something
awry with rFactor, but they also pointed out that it's probably only
noticable in extreme situations or with "extreme" mod physics.

At the end of the day, we shouldn't think too much about it, better
enjoy what we have.

Ciao,
Antonio

--- In lgnds_league@yahoogroups.com, Ray Walton <ray@...> wrote:

Trouble is Rik and Antonio that the ideal garage setting for steering
lock setting is usually different for each mod. For example my F307
steering lock is set to 18 degs and my GP79 V2 setting is 20 or 21
degs. As you know unlike RealFeel, which sets up parameters
individually for each mod in its ini file, LeoFFB does not do this and
only allows global settings, I therefore set mine to 19 degs in LeoFFB
as the half way point for both the main mods I use and this seems to
work okay and avoids me keep changing the Leo plug-in ini file setting
every week when I change the mod I am using. When this steering
parameter in LeoFFB is set correctly I notice that the steering
correctly goes light if you over steer and lose front wheel

traction, so

this is what I think the setting determines and if so has to be
intrinsically linked to the garage steering lock setting.

It would be a great enhancement if the next incarnation of LeoFFB would
incorporate this individual mod settings in its ini file like Realfeel
does but for now we have to live with the compromise of global settings
only.

*Regards*

*Ray Walton*
_*ray@...*_ <mailto:rayw@...>

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[Richard Walker]

Trouble is Rik and Antonio that the ideal garage setting for steering
lock setting is usually different for each mod. For example my F307
steering lock is set to 18 degs and my GP79 V2 setting is 20 or 21
degs.

thanks for the details, that helps. I'm a little surprised that you
use more steering lock in the F3s, but nevermind.

er, he doesn't! 20 > 18

nb: it is easy enough to set up .bat files for changing over the ini files, eg:

d:
cd rfactor/plugins
del LeoFFB.ini
copy GP79LeoFFB.ini LeoFFB.ini
cd..
rfactor

Cheers,
Richard

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[Ray Walton]

Sure Rik I thought about that ,bat file idea too but too lazy so far to
make one though I should I suppose especially now you have taken any
time thinking how to implement it away Mind you it is still then
important to actually remember to run it when you change mods. Antonio
yet you are right it is a sim after all and it would be nigh impossible
to get it 100% perfect so let enjoy it as it is. Anyway it is pretty
bloody good as it is too. Thanks Rik for clarifying to Antonio that my
steering lock is indeed lower not higher with the F307 cars.

Shame Leo is not producing an updated version but I hope RealFeel take
it up. I have just changed the LeoFFB setting as to how quickly the
static forces drop off when you start rolling. This was something like
6 or 7 originally but now at 0.5 it does not seem to unrealistically
remove those static/slow steering stiffness effects and eases more
slowly as you increase speed now. Here are my LeoFFB.ini settings that
work well for me with Real Feel set to 56%. Do not be tempted to
increase the Road bumps feeling as even 0.3 makes it too violent as
remember Real Feel is generating this effect too I think you will find,
so 0 is the right setting here for me. I still feel the bumps very well
thank you but at a more realistic level. Still experimenting with other
settings to see how they change things but this ini file settings do
work okay with my G25 and RealFeel. I f you find any setting better for
you let me know and I can try that too though I think we use different
wheels.

19.0 Front Wheel lock angle, degrees (max deflection to one side from
straight on)
0.8 Front wheel distance to centerline (half the front wheel track)
in metres, from .pm file
1.166 Front axle distance to body reference point (about half the
wheel base) in metres, from .pm file
4.0 Relative strength of FFB effects
7.5 Aligning moment curve shape / feeling of tyre losing grip. Lower
numbers are duller, range 1.0 .. 10
0.99 Negative aligning moment parameter for high slip angles, range
0.0 ... 1.0
11.0 Slip angle where aligning moment reverses direction - typically
between 8 and 15 degrees
0.1 Caster (dimetionless)
0.0 Camber ratio (not degrees!)
0.0 Road bumps feeling on the wheel
11500.0 maximum FFB force for stationary and low speed effects
8.0 stiffness of stationary wheels
1.5 wheel rubber hardness (1..5)
0.5 how quickly static forces drop off when rolling

*Regards*

*Ray Walton*
_*ray@legends-league.com*_ <mailto:rayw@loxinfo.co.th.>



Richard Walker wrote:

Trouble is Rik and Antonio that the ideal garage setting for steering
lock setting is usually different for each mod. For example my F307
steering lock is set to 18 degs and my GP79 V2 setting is 20 or 21
degs.

thanks for the details, that helps. I'm a little surprised that you
use more steering lock in the F3s, but nevermind.

er, he doesn't! 20 > 18

nb: it is easy enough to set up .bat files for changing over the ini files, eg:

d:
cd rfactor/plugins
del LeoFFB.ini
copy GP79LeoFFB.ini LeoFFB.ini
cd..
rfactor

Cheers,
Richard

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[antonio_wojahn]

Hi,

I drove with LeoFFB tonight, with basically Rik's settings, except for
my car specs. I've used a 50% mix with realfeel, again with Rik's
settings. The FFB is very weak, although the bumps are good already.
It's kind of nice to feel the stationary load in the pits lift after
the car gets going. I've got a few questions, though.

Do you use positive or negative values for the MaxForce in LeoFFB and
realfeel? I have set a negative value for FFB in rFactor, because I
use a Logitech wheel, so what's right for the inis? Apart from that,
how do I get the forces a little stronger? I'd like to feel a little
more in general, and I'd like to feel the tireload into the corner
more.

Plus, apart from that, Motec doesn't start ingame. It's there, but I
can't activate it...

Thanks in advance!

Ciao,
Antonio

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[Ray Walton]

Hi Antonnio

Try my LeoFFB settings I posted yesterday together with the following
RealFeel settings. I have only included these for the Ligier and the
F307 cars though the Ligier setting I think should work equally well for
all the GP79 cars) The only place where you may have to put a negative
value other than in the rFactor setting is in the RealFeel one for some
cars, notably the F307 cars but NOT with the GP79 ones. Rik explained
to me this depends on the steering geometry as to whether the steering
gear is in front or behind of the steering rods. Obviously in the
rFactor setting this is negative for most Logitech wheels and the test
for this is whether it is obviously correct without any RealFeel or
LeoFFB switched on. Here are those RealFeel settings I use and this
should give more FFB effect than Rik's as this is my personal preference
(BTW I have FFB strength set to -100% in rFactor) and note you will
INCREASE the FFB effects if you LOWER that MaxForceAtSteeringRack figure
but will make the effects less subtle. By default it is 1500 but I
prefer more subtlety of feeling and Rik even more so, a personal choice
as to what you are happier with, it wont make you faster only in so far
as if it "feels" right then you will be more confident with the car.

[General]
RealFeelIsOn=True
ConsoleEnabled=False
ConsoleRepeatDelay=0.100000
SpeechEnabled=True
KeyRepeatDelay=0.100000
SteerForceInputMax=11500.000000
MinSpeed=10.000000
[Ligier]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=3000.000000
SteeringDamper=7000.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=55.000000
SmoothingLevel=2
[F307]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-3000.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=58.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

Remember you can adjust these RealFeel setting from the cockpit on-track
using the assigned hot key combinations (see the text files included
with the RealFeel installation) so you can find the levels you like for
each car mod and save them.

As to Motec you turn it on from the cockpit by Cntrl + M together. You
can change this hotkey combination in the Motec set up screen, I use the
same keys but have it set so I have to hold these keys down for 1 second
to avoid accidentally triggering.

*Regards*

*Ray Walton*
_*ray@legends-league.com*_ <mailto:rayw@loxinfo.co.th.>



antonio_wojahn wrote:

Hi,

I drove with LeoFFB tonight, with basically Rik's settings, except for
my car specs. I've used a 50% mix with realfeel, again with Rik's
settings. The FFB is very weak, although the bumps are good already.
It's kind of nice to feel the stationary load in the pits lift after
the car gets going. I've got a few questions, though.

Do you use positive or negative values for the MaxForce in LeoFFB and
realfeel? I have set a negative value for FFB in rFactor, because I
use a Logitech wheel, so what's right for the inis? Apart from that,
how do I get the forces a little stronger? I'd like to feel a little
more in general, and I'd like to feel the tireload into the corner
more.

Plus, apart from that, Motec doesn't start ingame. It's there, but I
can't activate it...

Thanks in advance!

<snip>

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